Why 12 Step Programs Are Toxic
Since I finally feel ready to talk more about my own addiction recovery, & pass on some hopefully helpful tips, including tapering off a 30-40 unit-per-day alcohol habit without help, since physical addiction to alcohol is a *sod* of a corner to get backed into, when you know cold turkey would kill you, but either you can’t get into rehab or the programs aren’t right for you – while 12 Step would you have you believe you are *incapable* of consuming alcohol in a limited, medicinal, tapering capacity, it *is* possible, I did it, & I’d like to pass that on, along with advice on keeping ‘occasional’ drinks or dabblings just that, so, subscribe if you’re interested in seeing those over the next few weeks! …but before I talked about anything recovery oriented, I knew I had to address the braying elephant in the room of every recovery discussion, which is 12 Step, & why it is *not* the doctrine I personally follow.
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The Universe can help you but you should never be powerLESS over your life or actions you should be powerFUL and use other ways to deal with addiction. Strength not weakness helps you.
As had being a social worker in Canada i also DO NOT reccomend NA or AA for alcahol or drug addicts and i also would not work there as i had the chance. I agree with you 100% about the steps and how they deal with addicts. As a counsellor i completely agree with you. And i was an addict before becoming a social worker so i understand this conversation completely.
As for an alternative path to recovery other than 12-step, I'd advise people to look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It's a very goal-oriented form of therapy, that looks into how your thoughts, feelings and behaviour all influence one another, and how you can train away or break automatic thinking and neurological shortcuts. In my own case, I wanted to overcome my panic attacks, because it was making me miserable, so my therapist and I maped out some of my behaviours and then analyzed my thoughts and feelings around those behaviours. From there it was a matter of learning to recognize those negative thoughts and feelings and how to deal with them before they lead to the behaviour that was harming me. It took me about a year or so of work, but it's helped.
A couple of years on, I took what I've learned from CBT and I'm applying it to my alcoholism. Have a clear goal, and then analyze the thoughts and feelings that trigger the behaviour and from there work on how to alter my behaviour. I don't have a therapist on hand this time around, but once you've learned the process, you don't necessarily need one (though it helps to have someone to offer their expertise, I'm not going to lie).
Oh, and if you're from Sweden like me the service is subsidized, so there's that.
Hope it helps.
I've been thinking a lot on the more sinister/flawed aspects of 12-step and I couldn't agree with you more! One of the aspects that I find most harmful is the reinforcing of catastrophic thinking: "You had one slip-up! All of your efforts were for NOTHING! NOTHING!" Well, what about all those weeks, months, or years sober? Why would they suddenly count for nothing? Those were times when you weren't making an ass out of yourself, or disappointing your friends, or whatever form of hurt ones addiction takes.
Also, how major was the slip? You have to put things in perspective. Breaking your own rules but without any negative consequences (other than maybe a sense of shame/disappointment) is way different than going on an all-out bender. Saying both are equally bad and cracking down on ones self equally hard is not a good path to go down in the pursuit of mental health.
Thank you for this video. I have never been an addict but my father was a raging alcoholic. When I was four my mother grabbed my six siblings and I into this old mini van and we lived about a year couch surfing until my dad left the house. A couple years later my mom started talking about Alanon and Alateen. Alanon being for spouses, adult children, or friends of alcoholics and alateen just being for teens/children of alcoholics. I was to young to go to either but my older brothers went to meetings and I saw a small bit of improvement. They became fired up about it, I remember going to "Round Ups" and stuff the only way I can explain it is basically a comicon but for AA and alanon. We were poor so these were pretty much our vacation. I started meeting when I was 11, I was stoked because I had allot of issues due to my older brother constantly bullying me and past trauma with my dad. I wasn't sure what do expect but I wish I could have pulled myself out of there and gone to a therapist instead. The woman who was running it was controlling and condescending. She would often use phrases that were impractical but would get in your head. One that pisses me off to this day was "You choose to get angry" whenever I would tell her about something that was making me mad. I tried to stop myself from getting angry but to no avail and just ended up getting angry at myself, it seemed like that is what it wanted, but I was always wrong. As I got older I became more hostile and depressed but tried my best to work the program. The last round up I went to I shared my story and it makes me shudder to this day that I told an atiruom full of people my darkest days. Finally at age 14 I woke up to the fact that I was being manipulated and in order to recover I had to kick the program. I remember the final time I said "Keep coming back it works if your work it" with the largest grin on my face because I knew I would never come back to that BS again. I'm happy to say at the age of 19 I am working towards a better life with a therapist that doesn't treat me like trash.
First time seeing one of your videos. Gotta say I agree with you. I was a heavy, really heavy drinker for 29 years. I found the programs useless and offensive. I'm a Satanist, and the first thing I heard was everyone talking about god, and how they turned over their lives to god. I found that the program was just a christian religion in not so clever disguise. I walked out, went to my doc for a few bottles of valium, and spent a week in hell with the DT's. That was almost six years ago. I quit with my belief in, and love for Lucifer. It worked. I refuse to sit and talk about all of the crazy shit I did in almost thirty years of drinking, and be told that I had to pay some kind of homage to god. Fuck god. Fuck their program too. If it works for someone else, then they should go for it, but it's definitely not for everyone. It most certainly wasn't for me.
Be the person your dog thinks you are and it's all good.
The only twelve steps I'll be doing, is to the refrigerator after smoking a shit load of weed.
That bit about God helping those who help themselves isnt actually biblical.
12 step has seen many very hard drug users, many of whom are very intelligent that there is no other program for them. A cycle starts where those people became the predominant counselors in the drug rehab and mental health industry. The problem this created was this government reliance on "12 step". In the U.S., if you were doing some sort of mandated recovery, chances are, "12 step" programs were included. I went to some meetings where nobody would talk and everyone was there due to court. Everyone there hated the program. If you try to force anyone to learn something a certain way and punish them for doing it another way, or worse, say they were just secretly using the said certain method all along, you create a hated religion, or in this case an increasingly panned method. Looking back, so much was people pretending and after getting older you learn to look back and realize when people are spinning the yarn and just truly lying on a deeply emotional level because they are mistaking the company for support and this is a tragic thing.
“Keep coming back!” No I’m good thanks you miserable fuckers who make us feel Shiite!
Bottom line. They can't have it both ways. They say it's an unspecified "higher power" than end each meeting with Lord's Prayer. Stinking hypocrites.
So I know this is about AA but does anyone have opinions
about OA?
I enjoyed the couple of meetings I went to for the element of community they provided. It was a women only group and the vibe was really positive and uplifting. The actual 12 step stuff turned me off, but I just sort of "picked through" what I wanted to take from the experience. That being said, a regular support group would be just as good. Idk. Anyway I'm still sober and doing great so yeehaw.
all I have to say without rambling on and on about “me me me” and my journey (which I always do on your great-topic videos especially about EDs and addiction) is THANK YOU. to put it bluntly, NA triggered the fuck out of me. a single mention of any of my favorite drugs made me shake and sweat, literally and figuratively. I’m almost 3 years clean and have not been to a single meeting in 2.5 years, nor did I ever get a sponsor. being around other addicts, especially who were struggling as much as me no matter the length of time they’d been clean, made me want to get high, period. I would walk out of there feeling more motivated to get high than ever. and I feel you on the paganism part that we put out energy but we don’t leave it at that, we work on shit by ourselves too. and even an attempt at the steps took over my entire life, leaving no room for actual life. how bout just go to therapy and mend your relationships by proving your trust back to the people you fucked over, and taking care of yourself? putting all the power in everyone but yourself is a HUGE WASTE. LaVeyan Satanism has better morals than that.
love you!
Haha dont know how fucking long I've said the exact same shit. Yea I'm deathly addicted to alcohol, hmm why dont I go to a meeting for 2 hours every day with other alcoholics and talk specifically about alcohol and the things that make me want to drink. that'll make me not want to drink at all especially since it's not boring. Works for some people tho so that's cool I guess.
Loving your channel xo
This has nothing to do with what you're talking about but I LOVE your hair.
I tried to get sober a number of times with 12 step programs and failed. I just always felt like an outsider there. This time around I tried S.O.S. meetings instead (along with therapy) and I now have 5 years clean. ❣◕ ‿ ◕❣ I actually wrote a blog about this subject several years ago which I will link below if anyone is interested. I also included a list, at the bottom of the blog, with all the different types of community support groups which do not use the 12 steps. There are other options out there.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dana-nicole/a-is-not-the-only-way/1085310968263147/
100% agree. I didn’t do the twelve step programs I did it myself and I felt comfortable doing it by myself. Not being held to such a high standard as the programs do! And the only person I apologized to was my mom she knows all ab everything and I apologized for putting her thru that. No one else and I repeat no one, in my town were sober or more sober than anyone else. We were all doing it! I went to the methadone clinic with my money myself no one else could understand why. But I would’ve been dead long ago so I’m just glad I made it to 37. Yay!! If the 12 step program would let them move on and not be dwelling on your past “shameful” acts then they wouldn’t be funded here in the states. And praying never helped me physically get thru withdrawl. I did it myself and I know my mom was praying FOR ME but I DID IT.
The reason I hate them? They try to get you stop drinking/smoking/using by making you devoutly religious.
,people that matter don't mind and people that mind don't matter
Oh and forgive yourself blerugh
My biggest beef with 12 step is that it tries to be a surrogate for spirituality, leaving the addict to try and outsource his self-development to the group director. Go for real spirituality and real introspection instead, could be pagan, christian, Buddhist whatever.
Heck, Crowley’s “diary of a drug fiend” is entirely premised in addicts using high magick methods to develop their will, re order their psyche, and banish the cacodaemon of addiction
Slight correction: “God helps those who help themselves,” is actually Benjamin franklins quote. What scripture actually tells us is to be “wise as serpents, but gentle as doves,” the former implying one must take action in a subtle, calculated manner.
Thank you so much for this video! I thought I was the only one that felt this way. I’ve been sober for over 3 years now with the help of therapy and finding new hobbies. AA is so draining man.
I honestly couldn't believe there is anything like god or "power greater than ourselves" mentioned in the actual program that is supposed to help people deal with addiction. The only power potentially greater than ourselves can be the institution helping us, and it's still only comprised of humans, who, maybe know about these things and dealing with them more than us, but they are still just humans. In this system the non-spiritual people are f***ed from the start!
Hear hear, Dorian! Thank you so much for posting this. I absolutely agree, feeling powerless over your situation will keep you in a negative place where you feel helpless and out of control. The guilt factor can be super damaging, too. The past is the past, you're going forward, beating yourself over the head for stupid shit you did is not going to make anything better. Acknowledge the mistakes, learn from them, and move on, and don't give a damn about anyone who WANTS to see you suffering, weak, etc.
There are some people who will negate every single positive step you take by holding your addiction over your head, like "Hold your horses there, buddy, don't get too confident and happy, remember, your still an ALCOHOLIC PIECE OF SHIT even though you quit!" or they'll neg you for some other dumb shit you do. That always bugged me about books and 12 step programs that would say "Once an addict, always an addict." Basically, you're a walking turd either way.
I hate it when I see musicians or other successful people get pegged that way, no matter all the good they do, recovery they succeed at, some people will only identify them with their addiction. There are some people in your life worth apologizing to when you have hurt them, but I very strongly suggest not opening a dialogue with someone who is themself toxic, hurtful, selfish, looks and talks down on you, lacks empathy, and was not a good friend to begin with. Apologize to those who truly care, love, and support you and leave the rest. The less toxic people in your life, the easier recovery will be.
I totally agree with you on positive thinking, placing yourself in a positive light, looking at every victory and rejoicing in it, that was one thing thay really helped me. Feeling confident, in control, and remembering why you started getting sober, and all the wonderful things your are gaining are huge things that helped.
Also just taking one day or moment at a time, like "just for the next minute, I won't drink. For the next hour, the next evening", etc. Telling yourself forever is too daunting and sets you up to fail. It's like saving money. Every penny, every moment, every step leads you to success. This worked wonders for me and I'm approx 2 years sober. =) 2 years of one step at a time.
I highly recommend Addicted To Happy on Youtube and some of Hip Sobriety's articles (not HS's mostly political book or expensive classes) for recovery, they really hit the right buttons for me and I am very much indebted to them! After watching/reading their stuff, you won't feel weak and powerless, you'll feel like a fucking badass for staring that demon in the face and winning.
You'll feel less shame, guilt, and self loathing and more love, empathy, and also self love. When you realize life is better, easier, cheaper, more productive, healthier, stronger, happier, steadier, and more fun, and you remember why you quit and what you're gaining, you'll stick with it.
Love and Light to you all. <3
I don't like the "I'm better than you" mentality that a lot of the hosts have
I hate the idea that you cant get better without a faith system that someone has to force themselves to believe in some type of higher power to ever do better believing in any religion isnt just ah yes this belief system I believe that now, its something that someone already sorta believe and then find the religion and see how you a line or it speaks to you in a way and some people never have that or any personal belief system and still live a good happy its not something like going welp I didnt grow up religious nothing about it speaks to me I dont understand how any of this makes at all but I want to stop using coke time to buy a bible (not to say those who do believe in a higher power are wrong but it isnt just a switch in the brain and then you believe but the 12 step treats it as one)